 |
|
The BGB
|
|
Chat about nothing in particular - Lots of hidden goodies available to registered users only!
|
|
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jamie  Left-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #1 (ID: 115720)  Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:34 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: Why America is so disliked in the world |
  |
|
Ok, so maybe the title appeared flamebait, but ... well, I keep forgetting that Americans generally hate any sort of outside criticism of anything American, even if it may be something they agree with.
I don't understand this sort of paranoia.. Ho hum, anyway, this is the reason I've left the korean board. I posted this in the 'news' forum:
It's the bloody politicians.
As you probably know, about 6 years ago, Bush put in a secret tap on a server based in the USA belonging to SWIFT, which handles bank transactions between virtually all European banks, so the US government was spying on all our bank accounts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Finance_Tracking_Program
When discovered, SWIFT moved their servers out of America.
Instead of apologising, the Bush government made a deal with corrupt EU politicians to make a law that let them still have access to the data.
http://brusselsblogger.blogactiv.eu/2009/11/26/swift-eu-to-grant-usa-nearly-unlimited-» access-to-all-eu-banking-data/
Now the European parliament are in control, they are planning on repelling this awful infrigment into our privacy.
Americas response? If you do that, we'll no longer share information on terrorist suspects with you.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5220092,00.html
As some people have commented:
| Copy-Pasted from elsewhere : | "The US has threatened to withhold cooperation on terrorist intelligence if the bank data deal now in place is canceled..."
One would think that if combating terrorism was truly a US priority, the administration would continue to share terrorist intelligence regardless of what the EU does and instead threaten to withhold chicken wings, or iPhones, or Big Macs, or something else NOT security related.
|
| Copy-Pasted from elsewhere : | The thing that amazes me is that the EU denies because of privacy concerns and then the US tries to negotiate (sometimes called 'blackmail') the deal by withholding intelligence on terrorism!
And so the issue is quite clear. Give up your privacy else the US will not try to help prevent terrorism despite the US's declaration of a war on terror and its facade of integrity to 'do its best' in that effort.
I am sincerely bothered that a nation so 'right' about terrorism and its purposes of fighting terrorism, would not do everything possible to prevent it, and would deliberately NOT fight terrorism for petty political purposes.
And the US wonders why people around the world hate them... It's scary that the rest of the world sees the difference between the words and the actions but the democratic voters of the US are largely unaware. I guess this is partially due to the fact that American Politics are so bipartisan that the focus of questions is on the party and not of the sum of the whole. Thus they have news that relates to how one candidate might be wrong, or another might be corrupt, but none that truly reflects upon or questions the actions of the nation as a whole.
It isn't a conspiracy theory to say that major media in the US is in cooperation with its corporations and lobbies to make more money; the connections are clear and publicly available. It isn't any stretch of imagination to think that a corporate news source that is directly connected to other forms of business would skew its facts and present information that in ways that would benefit its business. Such wide-scope congolmerate-corporations are complete enemies to truth and competition; the extended shame of it being that the GOP, the party whose members vote to retain small government and market competition continually elects leaders/lawmakers that do not do so and bend over quite easily to corporations.
|
Any thoughts? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #2 (ID: 115721) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:35 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from muscovy_2000 : |
Jamie, I don't want to get into a political discussion here, but the idea is to cut off the terrorists' funding. Without funds, they cannot do much damage.
I used to work in the legal department of a small local bank. Before we could close the loan, the bank had to check a special list that contained names to which we could not lend, and they were not all arab or middle eastern names either. Most of our clients were from Latin America, and there were a lot of common Spanish names on that list. I wouldn't be surprised if my name is on that list, since my first name and maiden name are extremely common (that's why I combine my last name with my husband's last name). Before we could lend to anyone who had that same name, our bank had to submit a lot of personal information of the client to be sure it wasn't the same person on the list, and get a clearance. If we should ever have lent to anyone who was actually involved in terrorism in some way, our bank would have been shut down, and possibly someone would have gone to jail.
So, the idea is to prevent terrorism by cutting off their funding. In order to do this, we have to lose a bit of our freedom of privacy, but it's a small price to pay to prevent terrorism.
Anyway, I'm looking at it from a different perspective than you are, but I don't mind losing a bit of my privacy for the greater good. Anyone who doesn't have anything to hide shouldn't mind either. This isn't a perfect world, after all.
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #3 (ID: 115722) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:36 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from Terizia : |
It's big brother in my opinion.. terrorist will still get funding without going through traditional banks. And terrorists have been around before WW1 ... if I remember history lessons Italy had terrorits hired by political enemies to quash, terrorize, and destroy opponents. Hence where the word and practiced origniated. These were not associated with mob families. So these guys never went to banks either.
Anyway...Bush did very undemocratic things...but then again he never did believe what he said. Don't do drugs and both he and his girls were on drugs. No abortion and one of his daughters had one.
And it amazes me how much personal freedom we all have given away in the past decade in the name of protecting the nation.
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #4 (ID: 115723) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:37 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from muscovy_2000 : |
There will always be terrorism in the world, but the world has changed a lot since WWII. Before it was small-scale terrorism, but now we have the means for large-scale terrorism with nuclear weapons that can affect the entire world. For that the terrorists need large-scale funding, and that can only be done through banks. We'll never be able to stop terrorism, but we can hope to try to prevent it on a large scale at least. Or at least put as many obstacles in their way as possible.
And as I said before, I don't care if my bank accounts are scrutinized, or if my communications are monitored, if this will help curb some illegal activity that will hurt lots of people.
I'm not into politics at all, so this is only my personal opinion. Maybe our government is wrong in trying to control the terrorists' funding through the banks, but maybe we are right, and we are helping to prevent some large scale terrorism. I'd prefer that we err on the side of caution.
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #5 (ID: 115724) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:37 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| muscovy_2000 wrote: |
Jamie, I don't want to get into a political discussion here, but the idea is to cut off the terrorists' funding. Without funds, they cannot do much damage.
|
No, my point is, the USA want to retain access to the bank details of ANYONE in Europe, without offering the equivalent in return.
And when Europe says "that's not fair, either we share or we don't, it's not fair to be one way only" America says "If you don't do it our way, we will no longer share terrorist information with you.
So, in that event, how the HELL would America not telling Europe about terrorist threats they know about be about cutting off terroism?
That was the point of my posting.
But to address the side-issue, Fair enough, but I actually disagree with you. We have lost so much privacy for little benefit. What happened to thing like court-orders? evidence? reasonable suspicion?
Are you happy with the fact we've lost so many freedoms, the terrorists are winning through our own governments fault.
And to show I'm attacking the issue, not you lot personally Smile The UK has the greatest number of CCTV cameras per head in the world, and they have not helped stop ANY CRIMES.
Yet, they are building more... It's bigbrother.. America and the UK are using terrorism as an excuse to get more control
And the rest of your point about verifying people is fine - that's the way it should be. I'm not travelling to America, I'm not appying for a loan, or doing anything dodgy, so why should some USA politician on a whim be able to stroll through my bank account details? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #6 (ID: 115725) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:38 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from fido5mom : |
Isn't jamie lucky to write to an open society that extends to him a platform of his ideas.. I'm sure he's doing everything he can to stop his country's Official Secrets Act---
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #8 (ID: 115727) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:39 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from fido5mom : |
You're right , jamie, I haven't read your posts. Usually when I see America bashing, it comes from a source filled with more vitriol than knowledge of history and cultural schema. Perhaps your title sounded more filled with angst than you meant. I apologize if this American read you incorrectly. Americans are a generous people and I should promote that.
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #9 (ID: 115728) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:40 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
I'm sorry the title seemed provocative. I didn't mean it that way. The title was out of desperation.
I don't WANT America to be hated in the world, but I've seen a LOT of anti-American posts regarding this issue (and others)
I'm not allowed to make this a party issue, so I'll talk generally. Sometimes your departments make policies that are so unfair to others, and it does neither side any good in the long run.
I mean, come-on, do you really think it's FAIR for America (and I'm talking about policy makers, not the general public) to have all my bank details, and those of every person in Europe? And not to offer a similar thing in return?
And now, as EU has canceled the agreement (which your politicians carried out covertly for 6 years), USA has threated to not share any terrorist information.
So, the claim now, is if the USA knows the details of an impending bomb plot in London, they really won't tell us about it ?
How dumb-arse crazy is that.
Anyway, because of this decision, these are the sorts of posts you now get to see:
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #10 (ID: 115729) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:40 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from Nancy : |
Jamie ... I think people come to this site to escape the "real" problems of the world... for Pete's sake we're looking for Korean drama ya know... being told how crappy we are is a real downer.... and I do say WE because WE as Americans take it personally... yes you can say what you want but we don't have to like it... so expect some criticism directed at you. It may become tit for tat... OK Jim insert ribald comment here>
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #12 (ID: 115731) Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:42 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
| Copy-Pasted from mtlandis : |
Ok I am going to put a stop to this here. As much as I hate locking threads and stifling free speech, I am locking this one. Nancy is very right when she says
Quote:
...people come to this site to escape the "real" problems of the world...
I realize there is anti-American sentiment all over the Internet. Just like there is anti-(insert a country, state, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc... here). It doesn't mean that an an American based group that enjoys sharing another culture wants to hear it. If that kind of thing "floats your boat" there are plenty of other places that will accept or even encourage those kinds of posts.
|
* TOPIC LOCKED * |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeni
Joined: 30 May 2003 Total posts: 3400 Location: Loughborough Age: 24 Gender: Female Karma: 376
Karma yesterday, day before: 376, 376
Gallery Entries : 9
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Todge
Joined: 12 August 2003 Total posts: 4119 Location: :( Gender: Unknown Karma: 265
Karma yesterday, day before: 265, 265
Gallery Entries : 11
|
Post: #14 (ID: 115733) Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:48 pm Karma this post: (+1 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
France I think, just over there.. *Points across the channel*..
But leave that funny looking brolly behind, we'll probably need it more than them.
But back on topic.. What's the point of a forum, be it a forum about Korean drama, Politics, or even pelicans for heaven's sake, to have a News Board if they don't want to actually discuss anything outside of the forum's topic? And if people can't differentiate between a country's politics/policies, and their general public, then they shouldn't even think about reading anything even vaguely politically orientated, let alone comment on it.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
|
Post: #15 (ID: 115736) Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:41 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
Thank-you! Some sensible answers (and a bit of jeni-sidetracking  )
They used a similar argument when they shut-down the politics board, because there were looney republicans comparing Obama with Hitler etc.
"If you want to talk politics, there are sites for that"
The point is, the same reason they have a 'humour' board, and a talk board, and a sports board etc. is that you wanna discuss things with your FRIENDS not some random board for the sake of it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeni
Joined: 30 May 2003 Total posts: 3400 Location: Loughborough Age: 24 Gender: Female Karma: 376
Karma yesterday, day before: 376, 376
Gallery Entries : 9
|
Post: #16 (ID: 115738) Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:39 am Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
|
|
France is nice at this time of year.
_________________
"With bony hands I hold my partner
On soulless feet we cross the floor
The music stops as if to answer
An empty knocking at the door
It seems his skin was sweet as mango
When last I held him to my breast
But now we dance this grim fandango
And will four years before we rest."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lucylamingtons
Joined: 27 December 1985 Total posts: 2591 Location: 'Straya Age: 24 Gender: Female Karma: 435
Karma yesterday, day before: 435, 435
Gallery Entries : 90
|
Post: #17 (ID: 115784) Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:29 am Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: |
 |
|
France smells funny
_________________
Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Page generation @ 16:00:06 - time: 0.4824s (PHP: 85% - SQL: 15%) - SQL queries: 76
|
Latest Posts
Register
Profile
Usergroups
Search
Log in to check your private messages
FAQ
Log in
Calendar
Last Listened on Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:26 pm : 
