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jamie  Left-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
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Post: #1 (ID: 114750)  Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:40 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
Post subject: UK MP political scandal |
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For those of you outside the UK, have you guys heard much about the current political scandal in the UK, involving MP's from all parties, who have made outrageous expense claims?
It's a HUGE story here - they may even have to dissolve parliament! I.E. 'sack' everyone, and force a new election.
This story will continue to run, as new details are being released daily...
And, instead of dealing with the core problem, the MP's want the police to investigate who revealed their expenses in the first place! The bloody cheek, they are meant to work FOR us:
Here are some of the expenses claimed, "A-Z" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293320/MPs-expenses-A-Z.html
and by numbers... : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5297251/MPs-expenses-by-» numbers.html
Labour Cabinet MPs' expenses:
Conservative Shadow Cabinet Mps' expenses:
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Shadow Cabinet MPs' Expenses - Full coverage of the Conservative Shadow Cabinet MPs' expenses revealed by the Telegraph investigation.
Michael Gove spent £7,000 before moving home
Michael Gove, a front-bench ally of David Cameron, spent thousands on furnishing his London home before flipping his Commons allowance to a new property in his Surrey constituency, and claiming £13,000 in moving costs.
Tory skills minister who 'can't change light bulb'
David Willetts, the shadow innovation, universities and skills secretary claimed for a handyman to change 25 bulbs.
Alan Duncan claimed thousands for gardening
The senior Tory MP who oversees the partys policy on MPs expenses claimed thousands of pounds for his garden but stopped after agreeing with the fees office that his expenditure could be considered excessive.
Chris Grayling claimed for flat despite nearby constituency home
Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary claimed thousands of pounds to renovate a flat in central London bought with a mortgage funded at taxpayers expense, even though his constituency home is less than 17 miles from the House of Commons.
Oliver Letwin claimed £2,000 for tennis court repairs
Oliver Letwin, the senior Conservative charged with drawing up the partys policies for the next general election, claimed more than £2,000 for a leaking pipe to be replaced under his tennis court.
Cameron limits claims to mortgage and utilities
The Conservative leader has some of the most straightforward expense claims of any member of the shadow Cabinet.
Cheryl Gillan claimed for dog food
A Tory MP claimed back the cost of three packets of dog food on her second home expenses.
Ken Clarke forgot to submit expense receipts
Ken Clarke has based his entire political career on his financial acumen but when it comes to filling in his expenses forms, his book-keeping leaves much to be desired.
Nick Herbert claimed stamp duty on joint home
Nick Herbert charged taxpayers more than £10,000 for stamp duty and fees when he and his partner bought a home together in his constituency.
Andrew Lansley sold home after expenses renovations, including having his Tudor thatched cottage refurbished
Andrew Lansley spent more than £4,000 of taxpayers money renovating his country home months before he sold it, leaked expenses claims disclose.
Theresa Villiers claims stamp duty on second London home
Theresa Villiers claimed almost £16,000 in stamp duty and professional fees on expenses when she bought a London flat, even though she already had a house in the capital.
George Osborne rebuked for 'political' website
George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, was rebuked by the Commons authorities because his taxpayer-funded personal website was too political.
Francis Maude claimed for second London home: MPs' expenses
Francis Maude claimed almost £35,000 in two years for mortgage interest payments on a London flat when he owned a house just a few hundred yards away.
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A rundown of the some of the other abuses:
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MPs' expenses investigation in depth
Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew, Pat Doherty and Conor Murphy claimed more than £500,000 over five years even though the Sinn Fein MPs refuse to attend Parliament
Douglas Alexander spent more than £30,000 doing up his constituency home – which then suffered damage in a house fire.
Greg Barker made a £320,000 profit selling a flat the taxpayer had helped pay for
Margaret Beckett made a£600 claim for hanging baskets and pot plants
Tony Blair re-mortgaged his constituency home and claimed almost a third of the interest around the time he was buying another property in London
Hazel Blears claimed for three different properties in a year
Ben Bradshaw used his allowance to pay the mortgage interest on a flat he owned jointly with his boyfriend
Kevin Brennan had a £450 television delivered to his family home in Cardiff even though he reclaimed the money back on his London second home allowance
Gordon Brown's house swap let the PM claim thousands
Andy Burnham had an eight-month battle with the fees office after making a single expenses claim for more than £16,500
Stephen Byers claimed more than £125,000 for repairs and maintenance at a London flat owned outright by his partner, where he lives rent-free
David Cameron limited his claims to mortgage interest payments and utility bills
Ken Clarke had to be reminded frequently to submit receipts with his expenses
Alistair Darling's stamp duty was paid by the public
Alan Duncan spent thousands from his allowance on gardening, including repairs to his lawnmower
Caroline Flint claimed £14,000 for fees for new flat
Barbara Follett used £25,000 of taxpayers' money to pay for private security patrols at her home
Cheryl Gillan bought dog food using her allowance but agreed to pay it back after being contacted by the Telegraph
Michael Gove spent thousands on his London home before "flipping" his Commons allowance to another address
Chris Grayling claimed for a London flat even though his constituency home is only 17 miles from the House of Commons
John Gummer's gardening, including the removal of moles from his lawn, cost the taxpayer £9,000
Nick Herbert charged taxpayers more than £10,000 for stamp duty and fees when he and his partner bought a home together in his constituency
Geoff Hoon established a property empire worth £1.7 million after claiming taxpayer-funded expenses for at least two properties
Phil Hope spent more than £10,000 in one year refurbishing a small London flat
Kelvin Hopkins claims just a fraction of the available second-home allowance by taking the train to Westminster from his home town
Andrew Lansley spent more than £4,000 of taxpayers’ money renovating his country home months before he sold it
Oliver Letwin repaired a pipe beneath his tennis court using taxpayers' money
Lord Mandelson faces questions over the timing of his house claim
Michael Martin used taxpayers' money to pay for chauffeur-driven cars to his local job centre and Celtic's football ground
Francis Maude claimed almost £35,000 in two years for mortgage interest payments on a London flat when he owned a house just a few hundred yards away
David Miliband's spending was queried by his gardener
Margaret Moran switched the address of her second home, allowing her to claim £22,500 to fix a dry rot problem
George Osborne was rebuked by the Commons authorities for using public money to fund his "political" website
Paul Murphy had a new plumbing system installed at taxpayers’ expense because the water in the old one was “too hot”
John Prescott claimed for two lavatory seats in two years </p>
John Reid used his allowance to pay for slotted spoons, an ironing board and a glittery loo seat
Alex Salmond claimed £400 per month for food when the Commons was not even sitting
Jack Straw only paid half the amount of council tax that he claimed on his parliamentary allowances over four years but later rectified the over-claim
Kitty Ussher ansked the Commons authorities to fund extensive refurbishment of her Victorian family home
Keith Vaz claimed £75,500 for a second flat near Parliament even though he already lived just 12 miles from Westminster
Theresa Villiers claimed almost £16,000 in stamp duty and professional fees on expenses when she bought a London flat, even though she already had a house in the capital
Tom Watson and Iain Wright spent £100,000 of taxpayers' money on the London flat they once shared
Shaun Woodward received £100,000 to help pay mortgage
David Willetts, the Conservatives' choice for skills minister, needed help changing light bulbs
Phil Woolas submitted receipts including comics, nappies and women's clothing as part of his claims for food
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Four ministers who milked the system:
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MPs' expenses: Four ministers who milked the system
Four of Gordon Brown's ministers are exposed for milking the parliamentary MPs' expenses system and pushing their claims to the limit.
By Robert Winnett, Deputy Political Editor
Last Updated: 6:49PM BST 09 May 2009
The Daily Telegraph's files show that Barbara Follett, the Tourism Minister; Phil Woolas, the Immigration Minister; Ben Bradshaw, the Health Minister; and Phil Hope, the Care Services Minister, have exploited the MPs' expenses system.
The questionable expense claims of two former ministers, Keith Vaz and Barry Gardiner, are also disclosed. They come after this newspaper published suspect claims made by 13 members of the Cabinet.
The details of their claims has resulted in an outpouring of public anger over the MPs' expenses system with calls for immediate reform.
The Cabinet ministers involved, including Jack Straw and Lord Mandelson, have refused to apologise but instead criticised the parliamentary expenses system.
The latest disclosures show that the expenses scandal goes beyond the Cabinet and implicates the entire Government.
The Daily Telegraph has been shown details of expense claims made by MPs from all the main political parties and is planning to publish a series of articles exposing how the system is being exploited by dozens of MPs.
Parliamentary rules stipulate that MPs must ensure that there are "no grounds for a suggestion of a misuse of public money". However, The Daily Telegraph files show some ministers have pushed the limits of the scheme. It can be disclosed that:
Barbara Follett, the multi-millionaire Tourism Minister, claimed for private security patrols outside her London home costing more than £25,000. The parliamentary fees office, which is supposed to monitor claims, warned Mrs Follett that her claims may appear "excessive" if made public, but she was not deterred, saying she felt unsafe in Soho after being mugged.
Keith Vaz, the former minister who now chairs the Home Affairs select committee, bought and furnished a flat in central London at taxpayers' expense despite living just 12 miles away with his wife in a £1.15 million property. He claimed more than £75,000 for the flat.
Mr Vaz also changed his designated second home for a single year to a property he owns in his Leicester constituency. During this year 2007-08 he claimed £1,000 for a table and chairs, £750 on new carpets, and £2,614 for a pair of leather armchairs. He also claimed for 22 cushions, including 17 made from silk costing £15 each. During the course of the year he rented out his London flat.
Margaret Moran, the Labour MP for Luton, spent £22,500 of taxpayers' money treating dry rot at her and her husband's seaside house 100 miles from her constituency days after switching her "second home" there.
The parliamentary authorities were concerned that the work broke the "spirit" of the rules. However, the MP's claim was not blocked. Miss Moran's expenses appear to be among the most questionable of any MP.
Over four years she also spent thousands of pounds on three separate properties, switching between Westminster, Luton and Southampton and renovating each home in turn.
Phil Hope, the Care Services Minister, has spent more than £37,000 on refurbishing and furnishing a modest two-bedroom flat in south London.
Ben Bradshaw, the Health Minister, switched the designation of his second home to a property he shares with his partner in west London. Although the couple initially split the mortgage costs, Mr Bradshaw now claims the entire interest bill on the property despite owning only half the property.
Phil Woolas, the Home Office Minister, claimed for items of women's clothing, tampons and nappies. The parliamentary rules only allow expenses which are "exclusively" for MPs' own use so it is not clear these items were justified.
Greg Barker, the shadow climate change minister, made £320,000 after buying a flat with the help of taxpayers' money, and selling it after only 27 months. He is the first senior Tory to become embroiled in the expenses row, but details of other prominent Conservatives will be disclosed in coming days.
Barry Gardiner, the former environment minister, made a profit of almost £200,000 after buying a Westminster flat and claiming thousands of pounds to renovate the property. Mr Gardiner's main home is only eight miles from Parliament.
Yesterday, a number of Cabinet ministers gave interviews seeking to defend their own claims, but also criticising the operation of the system. The Daily Telegraph is also publishing details today of letters written by MPs to the parliamentary authorities that attempt to justify expense claims that were questioned.
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And finally, some of the begging letters
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MPs expenses: The best of the begging letters
Many of the expenses claims submitted by MPs were accompanied by begging letters in which they use a variety of bizarre excuses for why they need money to do up or refurbish their second homes. Here is a selection of what was said in some of them.
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
Last Updated: 1:29PM BST 09 May 2009
"From a natural justice perspective I feel a justifiable exception would be the fairest manner to deal with the current situation" letter from Labour MP in 2006 on why he should be allowed to claim for a £3,100 Sony 40 inch TV
"I object to your decision not to reimburse me for the costs of purchasing a baby's cot for use in my London home...Perhaps you might write to me explaining where my son should sleep next time he visits me in London?" letter from Labour MP in Nov 2004
"The work surfaces are no longer hygienic and the sink unit, which is an old brown plastic double bowl, is scratched and very ugly" letter from Conservative MP justifying the £5,347.36 cost of his new kitchen at his flat in 2007
"Ref: claim for lounge corner unit: if you feel this is excessive can I say that due to size and layout of the room a normal three-piece suite will not fit. This 'corner group' fits perfectly" Labour MP writing to the fees office in August 2006
"Old flat. Facilities out of date. Decrepit. Health reasons. Update. Living in slum. On advice, called in contractor. Recommended kitchen and bathroom replacement" note made by official in fees office of conversation with Labour MP who had claimed £12,400 for work to his flat
"I would be very grateful if (the expenses) could be paid in the last round of the year on Friday. Otherwise I might be in line for a divorce!" letter from Andy Burnham, the Culture Secretary in 2005 after making a single claim of £16,500 on his London flat.
"Reducing the payment by over £1,000 affects my cash flow. Please expedite the payment" letter from Tory MP whose expenses payment had been reduced by the fees office
"I appreciate you are under severe pressure... but, as I explained on the phone, I am away for two weeks and I don't want to leave my family destitute" letter from Labour MP to fees office
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Related Articles
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MPs expenses: the best of the begging letters
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Margaret Moran: Second home 'flip' paid £22,500 dry rot bill: MPs' expenses
Barry Gardiner: £198,500 profit from a flat renovated with MPs' expenses
Telegraph praised over MPs' expenses investigation
Kevin Brennan had £450 for television delivered to family home on MPs' expenses
John Reid claimed for a pouffe and a glittery loo seat
Ben Leapman: My four-year battle for the truth
'Lack of moral leadership' revealed by politicians
How The Daily Telegraph revealed MPs' expenses
MPs' expenses: Full Telegraph investigation |
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jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
Joined: 21 December 2002 Total posts: 13236 Location: Bishopston, Swansea, South Wales Age: 40 Gender: Male Karma: 685
Karma yesterday, day before: 685, 685
Gallery Entries : 27
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Post: #2 (ID: 114758) Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:49 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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The whole thing stinks. They are allowed to claim repairs/furnishing on their second homes, but many of them have 'switched'.
I.E. They change which of their home is their second home so they can effectively claim for both homes.
Also, one of them (Hazel Blears) bought a rundown London flat, did it up on expenses, sold it at a profit, and bought another rundown flat, did it up on expenses, and so on..... She managed to own 3 different London properties in one year!
It makes you wonder how they managed to find the time to keep our country in such a good state.... Oh.. I forgot.. QED
Is this news outside the UK? I know we are only a little wittle country, but this is HUGE news here. At least 6 MP's are now being investigated by Scotland Yard!
Read some of the feedback from annoyed Brits: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/5304481/The-hypocrisy-of-many-Members-of-» Parliament-is-given-short-shrift-in-the-court-of-public-opinion.html
Some choice comments:
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- First he was Two Jags, then Two Jabs, and now Two Bogs. Does John Prescott ever do things by halves?
- Forget John Prescott's lavatory seats, the real scandal of the expenses affair is Shaun Woodward's 38p Muller yoghurt. He could have had four for a pound.
- Burglars breaking into houses operate within rules set by themselves.
- Are these the same ministers who, while receiving funds for second homes and extra security, sent the Armed Forces to war without proper equipment?
- How am I to teach my pupils the basic values of a law-abiding and decent society honesty, integrity and selflessness when the people who devise the laws that define these principles are devoid of any themselves?
- I am a comprehensive school teacher and regularly purchase pens, batteries and rewritable DVDs. I also buy small rewards (badges and stickers) to encourage my terrific students. I rarely claim for these items; I seldom have time. In the 10 years I have been teaching, I have experienced myriad initiatives, "improvements" and curriculum changes. If only politicians were as busy with their careers, perhaps they would not have the time to interfere so heavily with mine.
- There has now been a call for an investigation into the leaked expenses documents. What happened to the Government's mantra, "if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to hide"?
- As a criminal barrister I have prosecuted or defended dozens of cases involving defendants who claim benefits for homes in which they do not live, or which they rent out. The Court of Appeal has said that such offences "involve the dishonest abstraction of taxpayers' money, and are not to be treated lightly. They are easy to commit and difficult and expensive to track down." I could not help engaging in the rather amusing exercise of drafting indictments based on the facts outlined in some of your reports. Now that the expense and difficulty of tracking down these perpetrators has largely been removed, I wonder whether or when anyone will consider doing it for real.
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Most bizarre claims:
Ice cube tray - John Reid - £1.50
Elephant lamps - Michael Gove - £134.30
Leather rocking chair - Julia Goldsworthy - £1,200
Hanging baskets - Margaret Beckett - £600
Light bulbs changing - David Willetts - Part of maintenance costing £135
Pair of Kenyan carpets - Bob Marshall Andrews - £200
Dog food - Cheryl Gillan - £4.47
Toilet roll holder - Paul Murphy - £35
Tea lights - Nick Clegg - £1.19
Trouser press - Chris Huhne - £119
Chauffeurs to the job centre and Celtic park - Michael Martin - Total of more than £1,400
Fluffy dusters - Steve Webb - 99p each
Horse manure - David Heathcoat-Amory - 70p a bag
Chocolate Santa - Sian James - 59p
Ginger crinkle biscuits - Austin Mitchell - 67p
Jellied eels - Andrew Rosindell - £1.31
Toilet seat - John Prescott - part of maintenance totaling £112.52
Moat cleaning - Douglas Hogg - £2,115
Trimming hedge around “helipad” - Michael Spicer - £609
Overhaul of ride-on lawnmower - Alan Duncan - £598
Some of them are retreating now....
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Hazel Blears says the cheque is in the post: MPs' expenses
Hazel Blears is to pay more than £13,000 in capital gains tax that she had avoided by using the Commons system.
The Communities Secretary told parliamentary authorities that a flat she owned in Kennington, south London, was her second home. However, she told the taxman that the property was her main home and therefore did not have to pay tax on the profits of its sale in 2005.
Miss Blears sold the property for £200,000, about £45,000 more than she paid for it. Revenue rules at the time stated that any profit made on a second home was subject to capital gains tax at 40 per cent.
Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5315303/Hazel-Blears-says-the-» cheque-is-in-the-post-MPs-expenses.html
Phil Hope, the Labour minister, has agreed to pay back more than £41,000 he claimed in expenses to refurbish his second home.
The care services minister this morning announced he would write a cheque for £41,709 to cover the cost of the furniture and fittings he claimed for the property a small two-bedroom flat in south London.
Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5317104/Phil-Hope-agrees-to-» return-41000-as-MPs-retreat-on-expenses-claims.html
MPs' expenses: Backbenchers rush to return money amid disclosure fears
MPs whose questionable expenses claims have not yet been published by The Daily Telegraph have come forward to return money.
At least two Labour backbenchers and one Ulster Unionist MP have sought to head-off embarrassing headlines about their allowances by announcing that they received too much and will repay thousands of pounds to the taxpayer.
This newspaper has seen the expenses claims and accompanying correspondence of all MPs between 2004 and 2009 but has so far only disclosed those relating to a fraction of members.
This morning Lady Sylvia Hermon said she had returned £2,730 in rent overpayments she received from the House of Commons.
Although the money was paid to her in 2005/6, the Ulster Unionist representative for North Down said that she only discovered her error last Monday after contacting the Fees Office.
"I remain profoundly upset and embarrassed," she said. "I'm also very angry that the Fees Office did not draw my attention to my mistakes at the time."
Mark Lazarowicz, Labour MP for Edinburgh North and Leith MP has pledged to repay £2,675 of fees relating to a "protracted legal dispute" over his second home for which he had billed the taxpayer.
While insisting he had behaved within parliamentary rules, Mr Lazarowicz admitted that the claim was "much higher than many of the public would be prepared to accept" and said that other Labour MPs who milked the system would have to make their own decisions about whether to pay money back.
They join Ronnie Campbell, Labour MP for Blyth Valley, who yesterday agreed to repay £6,000 of expenses which he used to buy furniture for his London flat. He admitted that his behaviour had been "miles out of order".
The admissions come amid widespread concern among sitting MPs particularly those with small majorities that public revulsion over the expenses scandal will be exploited by opposition candidates at the next general election.
Parties without Westminster representation are already referring to the Telegraph's disclosures in the campaign materials ahead of the local council and European Parliament elections next month, with the Greens, Ukip and the BNP all expected to benefit from protest votes.
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Liberal Party claims:
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Liberal Democrat MPs' expenses - Full coverage of the Liberal Democrat MPs' expenses revealed by the Telegraph investigation.
Andrew George's daughter used expenses flat
The Lib Dem MP is facing questions about his parliamentary expenses claims for a £300,000 London flat used by his student daughter while several of his party colleagues are under similar scrutiny.
Nick Clegg pushed expenses claims to the limit
Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader who has championed the reform of MPs expenses, claimed the maximum allowed under his parliamentary second home allowance.
Chris Huhne, a millionaire but you buy his HobNobs
The millionaire Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, regularly submits receipts for bus tickets and groceries including pints of milk, fluffy dusters, lavatory rolls and chocolate HobNobs.
Lembit Opik wanted £2,500 for a plasma TV
Lembit Opik, the Liberal Democrat housing spokesman, was forced to pay £2,499 for a 42 plasma television himself after he bought it at the worst possible moment.
Vince Cable asked for backdated payment
Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, forgoes the second home allowance, but asked whether he could claim backdated payments of the London supplement instead.
Menzies Campbell's £10,000 bill for flat overhaul
Former leader of the Lib Dems hired a top interior designer to refurbish his small flat in central London at taxpayers expense, spending £10,000 on scatter cushions, a king-sized bed and a flat-screen television.
Nick Harvey gets £30 a month to watch TV sports on TV
Nick Harvey, the MP nominated as the spokesman for the House of Commons, had to be reminded twice by parliamentary officials to submit receipts with his expenses claims.
Norman Baker claimed for bike and broadband
Norman Baker, a senior Liberal Democrat who has campaigned for greater disclosure of MPs expenses asked if he could claim for a bicycle and a computer so he could listen to music and email his family and friends.
Steve Webb claimed £8,400 for stamp duty
The Liberal Democrat work and pensions spokesman, sold his London flat and bought another nearby, while the taxpayer picked up an £8,400 bill for stamp duty.
Julia Goldsworthys spending spree as deadline loomed
Julia Goldsworthy, the Liberal Democrat local government spokesman, spent thousands of pounds on expensive furniture just days before the deadline for using up parliamentary allowances.
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Speaker of the House, Michael Martin is in trouble too....
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MPs' expenses: pressure grows on Speaker Michael Martin to stand down
Cabinet ministers are urging Gordon Brown to increase the pressure on Michael Martin, the Commons Speaker, to stand down in the wake of his reaction to the crisis over MPs expenses.
By Andrew Porter, Political Editor
Last Updated: 9:24AM BST 13 May 2009
Michael Martin has no idea of how parliamentary politics should be conducted
One Cabinet minister told The Daily Telegraph it was not good for the Speaker after he rounded on Labour MPs who questioned how he had handled the fallout from the Telegraphs investigation into Parliamentary allowances and MPs' expenses.
The developments came as Mr Martin refused to apologise for a personal attack on Kate Hoey, a Labour MP who said there should not be a police investigation into how the expenses details were leaked. A Tory MP is planning a motion of no confidence in the Speaker.
One Cabinet minister said: Its not good. When he starts attacking our own side just because they make points he disagrees with then he becomes a problem. The Commons cannot been seen in a serious light while hes still in place.
On Tuesday night, Miss Hoey told The Daily Telegraph that the public expected integrity and honesty from their MPs, and even more from the Speaker. She said Mr Martin should examine his conscience.
Earlier in the Commons, David Winnick, a respected Labour backbencher, told Mr Martin that he considered his comments inappropriate and urged him to apologise to Miss Hoey. Mr Martin refused discuss the matter, to which Mr Winnick said: That is not adequate. But that drew a furious response from Mr Martin. To astonishment from MPs, he told Mr Winnick: If its not adequate then you know what you must do.
On Monday, when Miss Hoey suggested that calling in the police to investigate the leak was an awful waste of money, Mr Martin told her: I listen to you often, when I turn on my television at midnight, and I hear your pearls of wisdom on Sky News.
Douglas Carswell, a Tory MP, is planning a Commons motion of no confidence in the Speaker this week. He said: The motion will call for the Speaker to go immediately. A new Speaker would be given a mandate to clean up politics and implement a new system on MPs expenses.
Mr Carswell said even Labour MPs now felt Mr Martin had to go. However, Mr Brown has offered his continued support for the Speaker.
Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, also renewed his criticisms of Commons Speaker Michael Martin who on Monday publicly turned on MPs who criticised the way the House authorities had handled the whole issue of MPs expenses.
"I want to see the Speaker - and I am sure that he realises this now - as the embodiment of the whole Parliament, expressing a sense of real contrition on behalf of the whole Parliament but also being very much on the front foot, promoting the most radical reform possible of the system of pay and expenses, not seeking to turn on precisely those people who have been advocating those reforms," Mr Clegg.
"It wasn't a good day for him the day before yesterday. I think it didn't reflect the needs of Parliament to restore trust in the system. I am sure that he realises that now."
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[u]Conservatives feel their leaders wrath:
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MPs' expenses: David Cameron orders Tories to pay back claims
David Cameron has ordered his shadow Cabinet to repay controversial expenses claims, as another Labour minister agreed to refund more than £40,000 of taxpayers' money.
By Robert Winnett and Andrew Porter
Last Updated: 11:27AM BST 13 May 2009
Phil Hope, the care services minister, this morning announced he would write a cheque for the money he received to refurbish a two-bedroom flat in south London.
The Daily Telegraph disclosed on last weed how Mr Hope billed the taxpayer £10,000 a year for four years for a range of furniture - including a barbecue, seven doors and two bookcases - for the small property.
It came after Mr Cameron ordered his shadow Cabinet to repay controversial expenses claims on their second homes.
Michael Gove, the shadow schools secretary, will repay £7,000 in furniture expenses; Alan Duncan, the shadow leader of the Commons, will repay more than £5,000 in gardening costs; and Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, will repay £2,600 claimed for home improvements.
Mr Lansley apologised to his South Cambridgeshire constituents for claiming "overgenerous" expenses in a letter to his local paper. "The public has every right to be angry about MPs' allowances. I was part of that system and I'm sorry for my part in it," he wrote.
Mr Cameron, who will return £680 paid for repair work at his Oxfordshire house, said it was time for MPs to start setting an example.
Hazel Blears, the Communities Secretary, also responded to the growing public anger by announcing that she would be paying £13,332 to HM Revenue and Customs to cover capital gains tax on a London flat she sold.
She told the parliamentary authorities that the Kennington property was her second home but informed the tax authorities that it was her main home and therefore did not have to pay tax on the profits of the sale in 2005. Although the arrangement was legal, it was criticised for being unethical.
Mr Cameron has gone further by establishing an independent scrutiny committee to investigate expense claims made by backbench Tory MPs who claimed for items such as swimming pools, housekeepers and even the clearance of a moat.
Those who refused to co-operate with the committee and repay expenses claims deemed to have been excessive would be expelled from the party, said Mr Cameron.
Gordon Brown will come under pressure in the Commons today to announce a similar payback of the Cabinets expenses.
Ministers have spent the past five days defending their claims despite widespread public anger over their behaviour.
Members of the Liberal Democrat front bench also began announcing last night that they would repay money after being approached by The Daily Telegraph over their expense claims. Controversial payments made to backbench Labour MPs, including Margaret Moran, would also be repaid.
The move by politicians followed five days of disclosures by The Daily Telegraph revealing the systematic milking of the system. The scandal has engulfed the Cabinet, junior ministers, the shadow cabinet and now the Liberal Democrats.
Mr Cameron, speaking at a hastily-arranged press conference in the wake of the disclosures, apologised for the behaviour of his MPs.
I want to start by saying sorry, he said. Sorry that its come to this. And sorry for the actions of some Conservative MPs. People are right to be angry that some MPs have taken public money to pay for things few could afford. Youve been let down. Politicians have done things that are unethical and wrong. I dont care if they were within the rules they were wrong.
The Conservative leader also announced a new set of rules for Conservative MPs including a ban on flipping between designated second homes. They would also be prohibited from claiming for furniture, household items and food and would have to pay capital gains tax on the sale of homes against which they made claims.
Ive said that a Conservative government needs to be careful, not casual, with public money, he said. That principle of thrift should apply to Conservative MPs as well.
The apology and announcement of a tough new expenses regime came after Mr Cameron held a series of emergency meetings with the shadow cabinet and Conservative MPs. Oliver Letwin, George Osborne, David Willetts and Cheryl Gillan agreed to repay claims. Chris Grayling, Francis Maude and Theresa Villiers will stop claiming for second home expenses after it emerged that they all owned properties relatively close to Westminster. Ken Clarke, the shadow business secretary, will begin paying full council tax on his main family home.
Mr Cameron said members of his team would have been sacked if they had not agreed to pay the money.
If they had not paid back what they should not have claimed they would not have been in the shadow cabinet. They would have been sacked, thats quite clear, he said.
The Daily Telegraph is investigating the expense claims of MPs from all the political parties from members of the Cabinet to backbenchers.
The disclosures have led to widespread public concern over the operation of the system after it became clear that MPs had profited.
On Tuesday, it was disclosed that Conservative grandees including Douglas Hogg, a former cabinet minister, and Sir Michael Spicer, the chairman of the 1922 Committee had made claims to subsidise country estates. Mr Hoggs claims included clearing a moat and the costs of employing a full-time housekeeper.
Mr Cameron said he was appalled by the claims.
These MPs would have to justify their expenses before the Conservatives new scrutiny committee. They were expected to have to repay claims amounting to tens of thousands of pounds made over the past few years that Mr Cameron said were excessive.
When I read about the swimming pools, the moats I am completely appalled, most of my colleagues are appalled. People want something done about this, he said.
Mr Browns response was expected to become the focus of the expenses scandal in Westminster today.
Ann Widdecombe, the Conservative MP, expressed concern at the way the individual party leaders were announcing their own measures for dealing with the issue before the Committee on Standards in Public Life, chaired by Sir Christopher Kelly, had completed its review of the system.
"It is becoming a competition that 'My shirt is hairier than yours'," she told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.
"The problem is that we will have about 25 preferred solutions of increasing hairiness before Sir Christopher Kelly has even reported."
She said MPs outside London needed to run two homes and she warned that it was important to ensure that people of modest means were not driven out of Westminster politics.
"At the moment we are faced on the Tory side with being told that you cannot claim for repairs and maintenance.
"If you are of modest means and your boiler blows up, somebody please tell me what to do. Perhaps I will go to David Cameron for a personal loan - not that I have a second home at the moment."
The Prime Minister has been criticised for his lacklustre response. After Mr Cameron apologised for the operation of the expenses system on Sunday evening, Mr Brown issued an apology on behalf of all MPs.
He will face questions in the Commons today, where he is expected to be attacked by the Tory leader for his stance.
On Tuesday night, Labour MPs with controversial claims met Nick Brown, the Chief Whip, to discuss their expenses. Harriet Harman, the Leader of the Commons, announced that she had asked a senior Labour MP to work out arrangements for backbenchers wishing to repay money.
Miss Blears said she understood the public reaction. I have heard absolutely the outrage and the anger that the public feel about what has being going on, she said.
I would never do anything to let down the people that I represent, and serve and that is the most important thing for me.
It isnt just enough to claim within the law, that is why I have decided to send to the inland revenue a cheque. What is really important to me is what people think about this issue and what they think about me.
I know this isnt enough and people are angry and it will take time. My single most important thing in my life is my relationship with my constituents in Salford.
A cross-party parliamentary committee agreed that an independent team would be appointed to go through every claim made in the last four years by every MP to look for any anomalies.
Action would be taken against any MP found to have broken the rules and a mechanism would be established for MPs to repay money.
New rules would be also be introduced to try to stop the practice of flipping - where MPs regularly switch the property designated as their second home. MPs would have to show a consistency of designated residency during the period of each parliament.
There would also be new restrictions on what MPs could claim under the controversial additional cost allowance, although details were not announced. Labour MPs were understood to be attempting to limit the amount of mortgage interest that could be claimed but this proposal was not agreed by the committee.
There was growing pressure on Michael Martin, the Speaker, who has been accused of protecting the lax expenses system. He refused to apologise to Kate Hoey, a Labour MP he criticised in Parliament on Tuesday. She spoke out over Mr Martins decision to refer the leak of MPs expenses claims to the police.
Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, became the first party leader to say that the Speaker had got it very wrong.
It is clear Parliament as a whole owes an apology to the British public, the Liberal Democrat leader said. He needs to reflect that sense of apology and the urgency for new rules that put MPs beyond any further suspicion.
However, a Downing Street spokesman said the Prime Minister supported the Speaker.
MPs' expenses: David Cameron to take action over 'abuse' of taxpayers' money
David Cameron, the Tory leader, has vowed to take action over his MPs' allowances, following disclosures of senior Tories subsidising their country estates at taxpayers expense.
By Robert Winnett, Deputy Political Editor
Last Updated: 12:37PM BST 12 May 2009
MPs' expenses: David Cameron to take action over 'abuse' of taxpayers' money
The Daily Telegraph has disclosed how Tory grandees have received tens of thousands of pounds to maintain manor houses and stately homes, with the upkeep of swimming pools, clearance of moats and even the salaries of domestic staff, all claimed on parliamentary expenses.
The Conservative leader arrived early on Tuesday morning at the party's Westminster headquarters to take personal charge of the situation.
Mr Cameron has called a meeting with some of the MPs detailed in the Telegraph over their expenses. The Tory leader will also meet the shadow cabinet and advisers to discuss the ongoing scandal.
Mr Cameron is understood to be appalled by the latest disclosures and claimed he would take action against any of his MPs who had "abused" their expenses.
It is thought that the options he is considering include demanding that the MPs involved repay claims which are excessive.
Any who refuse could face the ultimate sanction of having the Conservative whip withdrawn - effectively expelling them from the parliamentary party.
"I am angry about what has happened. It is out of order and some of it is abuse of taxpayers' money and I am going to deal with it," he said.
After they were approached on Monday, three Conservative MPs announced that they would be repaying money they had claimed to maintain or heat private swimming pools at their second homes.
On Tuesday morning Margaret Moran, the Labour MP who claimed expenses for three second homes, agreed to pay back the £22,500 she received to treat dry rot a property she shared with her partner in Southampton.
After being overwhelmed by complaints from angry constituents, Miss Moran has backed down and agreed to repay all the expenses money she received for the property in Southampton, 100 miles from her constituency.
Mr Cameron has already apologised after The Daily Telegraph highlighted some of the expenses claimed by his front bench colleagues. Mr Cameron said they would have to explain their own positions.
The latest embarrassing revelations about MPs' allowances - which also include an expenses claim for horse manure - come amid evidence that the controversy has hit confidence in both main parties.
A Populus opinion poll for The Times found that both the main political parties have suffered a fall in their popularity in the wake of the expenses scandal. Labour is down four percentage points at 26 per cent, the Conservatives are down by the same amount to 39 per cent. However, the Liberal Democrats, whose expense claims have yet to be disclosed, are up slightly.
One senior Tory claimed successfully towards the cost of a full-time housekeeper with a salary package of £14,000 a year, along with a claim including £2,000 for clearing the moat surrounding his manor house. Another was allowed to claim for a helipad to be maintained.
The disclosures will further alarm taxpayers and add to concern over the operation of the House of Commons fees office, which is supposed to police the parliamentary expenses system.
The latest disclosures are among the most disturbing yet exposed during the Telegraphs investigation. Claims that are excessive or luxurious are not permitted under the rules. HM Revenue and Customs may wish to investigate some of the claims.
Todays Telegraph Expenses Files disclose that the taxpayer has subsidised lifestyles far beyond those experienced by most Britons. It can be disclosed that:
* Douglas Hogg, the former agriculture secretary, submitted a claim form including more than £2,000 for the moat around his country estate to be cleared . The taxpayer also helped meet the cost of a full-time housekeeper, including her car. The public finances also helped pay for work to Mr Hoggs stables and for his piano to be tuned.
* Sir Michael Spicer, the Conservatives most senior backbench MP, claimed £5,650 in nine months for his garden to be maintained. In December 2006, he submitted a detailed invoice which included hedge cutting ... helipad, although he claimed last night that the helipad was a family joke. The Conservative grandee successfully claimed for the costs of hanging a chandelier in his main manor house.
* James Arbuthnot, the Conservative chairman of the defence select committee, announced last night that he would be repaying money he had claimed from the taxpayer to clean his swimming pool . This was among a series of payments made to maintain a country residence he rented before buying a £2 million home without a mortgage in 2007.
* David Davis, the former shadow home secretary, spent more than £10,000 of taxpayers money on home renovations and furnishings , including a new £5,700 portico at his home in Yorkshire.
* David Heathcoat-Amory claimed for more than £380 of horse manure for his garden.
* Michael Ancram, who is the Marquess of Lothian, claimed more than £14,000 a year in expenses while owning three properties , none of which have a mortgage and are worth an estimated £8 million.
* Sir Alan Haselhurst, the Deputy Speaker, has claimed £142,119 for his country home over the last seven years , despite having no mortgage to pay. He has charged the taxpayer almost £12,000 over five years for gardening bills at his farmhouse in Essex.
* Stewart Jackson, a shadow minister, billed the taxpayer for more than £11,000 in professional fees when buying a new home in Peterborough within a year of being elected to Parliament. He claimed more than £300 for work on a swimming pool and hundreds more for work to a summer room. Last night he agreed to repay the money claimed for the swimming pool.
Correspondence seen by The Daily Telegraph suggests that some of the MPs have been claiming for the country homes for many years, stretching back to when receipts were not necessary for parliamentary expenses.
When they were required to produce detailed receipts about five years ago, they began simply producing statements listing all the costs of their homes. In some cases, the fees office agreed to pay the maximum allowance after coming under pressure from the MPs.
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Todge
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jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
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Post: #4 (ID: 114768) Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:56 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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hospitals in wales all give free parking  |
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Todge
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| VINEGARLIZ President of the DACS fanclub
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Post: #6 (ID: 114783) Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:03 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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Hospital parkin' fer outpatients 'n staff should be free.................. far mair important than cleanin' flippin' moats etc!
When Ah think o' the hassle Ah hud tae get after ma brain haemorrhage tae get disability allowances Ah get real angry at what them twats are claimin'! 
................ then there wiz the 10% tax trick by oor 'pal' Gordon |
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IY
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Post: #7 (ID: 114809) Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:50 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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Calling all overseas BGBers - is this story being reported abroad and what do they make of it overseas? (.......that doesn't mean in Wales......  ) |
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Todge
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Rav Winston
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Post: #10 (ID: 114813) Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:59 am Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| Rav Winston wrote: | | In America we're just happy if they aren't actively murdering interns in the Capitol. |
Is that a common problem?  I thoight it was pregancy you had to worry about.......  |
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Jeni
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Post: #11 (ID: 114814) Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:58 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| Rav Winston wrote: | | "What?!" I hear you crying-- "Our politicians are corrupt??!! No! NO! It cannot be!!!" |
Nononono, they aren't corruption charges (although I think a couple of the Lords lately have been up their for taking bribes, but that's not been as YELLED ABOUT as this, oh and there are a few nepotism claims). The MPs have been immoral, a lot of the petty stuff highlighted by the Telegraph has been legal. According to the law. Which they old MPs created. I guess it was originally meant to be an honour system.
Their expenses claimed have only been possibly illegal (as the police are investigating, I don't think they've been "declared" illegal) in some cases (namely the ones that continued to claim on their mortage, even though it had been paid off). But that MP that claimed for his £11,000 bookcase (it was to be in a Grade-II listed building! it had to be authentic!), and then retired two months later was well within his rights. Apparently. Gawd, just hearing him try to justify it on Jeremy Vine was pathetic: "it's a very good bookcase, I still use it!"
Jeremy: "but you're not an MP anymore. Can we have it back?"
Lord: "but I needed it for my files."
Jeremy: "...Oook. *changes subject*"
Our MP is also standing down at the next election (he says it's because of his wife's ill health), but he's been dragged around the pit for some ludicrous expense claims. Mostly gardening at his place a couple of villages over from me. Which he's barely at. He's claimed it as his second home, yet apparently he lives there only through word-of-mouth. I never liked him anyway. He was such an smug git swanning around our local town.
Edit: COOL! He made number two in the MP Casualty list on the Telegraph website. 
Edit 2: "“There were occasions when I found people and dogs in the garden,” he said." OH SERIOUSLY. The village he has his second home is... so darn quaint. And his house is just off the main road through. Not hidden away anywhere. People probably tramp through as a shortcut knowing he's not there half the time!
I think the main problem is that these MPs have behaved exactly how businessmen do, submit expense claims and hope it goes through, and they've barely thought about the fact that the taxpayer is paying for that. Not a big corporate beast.
Anyway, that's why they kicked the Speaker out, because it was his office's job to regulate this. But he didn't. And possibly calluded with MPs. Heaven knows MPs can't regulate themselves.
The one charge that REALLY annoys me, though, is Alistair Darling's accountancy fee claims. He's the Chancellor of the Exchequer and he had to use an accountant to sort his tax forms and then claimed the cost back.
HE'S THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER. Twat. Like Labour are going to get re-elected with his Budget.
_________________
"With bony hands I hold my partner
On soulless feet we cross the floor
The music stops as if to answer
An empty knocking at the door
It seems his skin was sweet as mango
When last I held him to my breast
But now we dance this grim fandango
And will four years before we rest."
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Rav Winston
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Post: #12 (ID: 114816) Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:47 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| IY wrote: | | Rav Winston wrote: | | In America we're just happy if they aren't actively murdering interns in the Capitol. |
Is that a common problem? I thoight it was pregancy you had to worry about....... |
Nah-- Most of the male members can't get pregnant.
_________________
"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
--Old Ch'an Proverb
Draco No Est
Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas
Ego Immitior Quia Toleraro
___________________________________
www.suntaijiquan.com
www.fatuncles.com |
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Rav Winston
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Post: #13 (ID: 114817) Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:49 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| Jeni wrote: | | Rav Winston wrote: | | "What?!" I hear you crying-- "Our politicians are corrupt??!! No! NO! It cannot be!!!" |
Nononono, they aren't corruption charges (although I think a couple of the Lords lately have been up their for taking bribes, but that's not been as YELLED ABOUT as this, oh and there are a few nepotism claims). The MPs have been immoral, a lot of the petty stuff highlighted by the Telegraph has been legal. According to the law. Which they old MPs created. I guess it was originally meant to be an honour system.
Their expenses claimed have only been possibly illegal (as the police are investigating, I don't think they've been "declared" illegal) in some cases (namely the ones that continued to claim on their mortage, even though it had been paid off). But that MP that claimed for his £11,000 bookcase (it was to be in a Grade-II listed building! it had to be authentic!), and then retired two months later was well within his rights. Apparently. Gawd, just hearing him try to justify it on Jeremy Vine was pathetic: "it's a very good bookcase, I still use it!"
Jeremy: "but you're not an MP anymore. Can we have it back?"
Lord: "but I needed it for my files."
Jeremy: "...Oook. *changes subject*"
Our MP is also standing down at the next election (he says it's because of his wife's ill health), but he's been dragged around the pit for some ludicrous expense claims. Mostly gardening at his place a couple of villages over from me. Which he's barely at. He's claimed it as his second home, yet apparently he lives there only through word-of-mouth. I never liked him anyway. He was such an smug git swanning around our local town.
Edit: COOL! He made number two in the MP Casualty list on the Telegraph website.
Edit 2: "“There were occasions when I found people and dogs in the garden,” he said." OH SERIOUSLY. The village he has his second home is... so darn quaint. And his house is just off the main road through. Not hidden away anywhere. People probably tramp through as a shortcut knowing he's not there half the time!
I think the main problem is that these MPs have behaved exactly how businessmen do, submit expense claims and hope it goes through, and they've barely thought about the fact that the taxpayer is paying for that. Not a big corporate beast.
Anyway, that's why they kicked the Speaker out, because it was his office's job to regulate this. But he didn't. And possibly calluded with MPs. Heaven knows MPs can't regulate themselves.
The one charge that REALLY annoys me, though, is Alistair Darling's accountancy fee claims. He's the Chancellor of the Exchequer and he had to use an accountant to sort his tax forms and then claimed the cost back.
HE'S THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER. Twat. Like Labour are going to get re-elected with his Budget. |
I still think you shouldn't be at all shocked. Immoral, illegal, corrupt-- Whatever you want to call it, they're just doing what politicians do. Just be grateful your country still runs, and get rid of the current crop of bastards in office if you don't like them.
Sorry. Does the bitterness shine through...?
_________________
"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
--Old Ch'an Proverb
Draco No Est
Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas
Ego Immitior Quia Toleraro
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IY
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Post: #14 (ID: 114818) Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:56 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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Problem is we'll just get another bunch of crooks running everything.  |
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Todge
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IY
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Post: #16 (ID: 114820) Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:58 am Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| Todge wrote: | | I like the one about an MP, can't remember the name, but he claimed for a £5 donation to a church!! |
Charity begins at the Taxpayers expense. Is there a box I can tick to stop them using Tax to donate money to Cave Dwelling Shamen......  |
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jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
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Post: #17 (ID: 114821) Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:16 am Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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And Alistair Darling.. Even if he DID claim twice in error, he's meant to be friggin' running the economy!
Of course, even those found out aren't going now, they are just going to bow out at the next election - that way they get their golden handshake, and nice pension.
I'm shocked at you, Rav, for being so apathetic to similar things occuring over there!  |
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Jeni
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Post: #18 (ID: 114822) Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:26 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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| Rav Winston wrote: | | I still think you shouldn't be at all shocked. |
Disappointed, not shocked. I still have the joys of youth to believe in the intrinsic good in politicians.
| Jamie wrote: | | And Alistair Darling.. Even if he DID claim twice in error, he's meant to be friggin' running the economy! |
To claim twice is quite an error, I can understand once, but twice? As you say, he runs the economy, I'd expect him to pay attention to the bigger receipts. I can understand the small ones, slip in as it were, but accountants are not cheap. You can't claim for that accidentally, I think.
_________________
"With bony hands I hold my partner
On soulless feet we cross the floor
The music stops as if to answer
An empty knocking at the door
It seems his skin was sweet as mango
When last I held him to my breast
But now we dance this grim fandango
And will four years before we rest."
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jamieLeft-handed Welsh Git
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Post: #20 (ID: 114824) Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:01 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0)
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Aren't the police investigating his claims?
_________________
"With bony hands I hold my partner
On soulless feet we cross the floor
The music stops as if to answer
An empty knocking at the door
It seems his skin was sweet as mango
When last I held him to my breast
But now we dance this grim fandango
And will four years before we rest."
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